Discipleship, Part 2

Transcript

GRM 87
06/22/1980
Discipleship, Part 2
Matthew 28; Selected Passages
Gil Rugh

We moved into the subject of discipleship last week in our study and I want to continue that this evening. Picking up some areas there’s not necessarily a progression but areas that are related to what we talked about last week. We noted then in our study that the command to “make disciples” of all the nations is given by Christ in the Book of Matthew. We find its development in the Book of Acts as people are brought into a knowledge of Jesus Christ. They come to believe in Him as personal Savior and then they are being built up in that relationship with Him. A disciple is basically a learner, that’s what the word means a mathetes, a learner, one with a follower or an adherent as was carried out as the disciples proclaimed Jesus Christ and brought people into a personal knowledge of Him.

Now, in our discussion of the subject of discipleship, and how it is carried out, we considered the matter of what is one-on-one discipleship today. I noted in our study last week that it seems to me the biblical pattern for discipleship is the local church. In Ephesians 4 we have among other gifts, pastor-teachers and evangelist that have to do with reaching out with the gospel as well as building up, and then all the other parts of the body functioning together for the maturing of each person who is in the body. Particularly what we’re focusing on is what is “biblical discipleship” and then a consideration of what is “the popular concept of discipleship today,” and there were some questions on this and I have a very clarifying drawing for you. If you’ve seen my drawings, it’s hard to believe that they’re clarifying.

Okay, in discipleship, and what I’m referring to as one-on-one discipleship, that stands for one-to-one discipleship where you have a person who is called a leader or a trainer, and then ministers to one who is called the disciple and this is the basic relationship. Maybe I could read you a quote from a book on discipleship. He refers to a previous discussion where he elaborated on this but he talks about individual instruction and coaching can be done effectively only on a one-to-one basis. “Fellowship and group teaching will play a strategic role in augmenting the man to man ministry but nothing can take the place of personal attention,” so in this type of discipleship we’re saying this is the basic relationship. Now there are other things that are supplementary, the church, personal witnessing, bible study, whatever else you might add here. These are supplementary to the basic relationship. The leader or the trainer is giving his input to the disciple. This is basic. The other is supplementing that relationship. I think you’ll find this if you read any of the popular books on discipleship; they stress this as the basic relationship.

Now my understanding is that today, in the church, the basic relationship which exists is the church or the body of Christ and then the individual believer, and this is a mutual relationship. Now in connection with this kind of ministry, as the body ministers to the individual, and every individual part of the body naturally ministers to the body as well, then there are supplementary kinds of things. We will have personal, one-on-one relationships, and we will do other things, but the basic relationship is seen in this way. I also talked about a dispensational distinction that may be evident, and I mentioned this because of the uses in—I forget how many there are, 265, 269, something like that, uses of mathetes and related words. They are all found in the Gospels and Acts. The word is never used in the epistles. Now one of the explanations may be Acts 11:26 says that the disciples were called Christians in Antioch, so they begin to be called Christians, but it does indicate that we’re talking about the same person when we talk about a disciple or a Christian

Now the relationship that exists in the Gospels perhaps could be pictured like this. Christ, and then a ministry to each disciple, and you have all the disciples here being ministered to by Christ, and they are in adherence to Jesus Christ. They are His disciples; not an uncommon pattern in biblical times for a prominent teacher to have disciples attached to him. This is the way Christ, carried on His ministry, although, we ought to note. Even though Christ carried on this kind of ministry, we never find Him, instructing the disciples to follow the process of what is so popularly called, and I find it in everything I read on discipleship, “multiplication.” Never does Christ tell this disciple, now you ought to go, and invest your life in another person and then he can invest himself in another person, and we begin to multiply out. Read basic passages like Matthew 10, in His ministry with the disciples in sending them out He never tells them that they ought to carry on this kind of relationship, so I have a question whether it’s even biblical, limiting ourselves to the gospel to replace me. Put me in this circle where Christ is, and now I am attaching disciples to me. That has never been a biblical pattern. Jesus Christ attached the disciples to Himself and that’s still the pattern.

How does it carry out in the church today? You have Christ, He is the head of the body, then you have Him ministering to the body. The same kind of relationship the body relates to Him. Now within the body, and this is the church, you have the ministry of the Holy Spirit and then you have all the parts of the body and the Spirit ministering in each and every part, and each part ministering to every other part, so all the arrows connect to every other part. You could have, this is the arm, you could have this is an ear. You could have this is an eye and there’s all this mutual interaction going on, but you see the relationship. It’s still the attachment to Christ. Christ is the head of the body and through the Holy Spirit who indwells every believer you have this ministry going on within the body. As every part of the body ministers in conjunction with the other parts of the body and that according to Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 12, Romans 12 is the way that the body is developed and built up. That is the maturing the relationship. This is what I was referring to when I said about a dispensational difference, trying to carry this concept across into the church.

This is not the pattern that evolved. The church was not in existence, although there is a parallel in another sense where Christ is still the One who is the head and we are all attached to Him. I don’t find any biblical foundation for saying this is the way, we mature men, and women today, in the New Testament. Okay, I mentioned the matter of multiplication and the emphasis in this kind of one-on-one discipleship is through multiplication. I am here, and I take to myself a man that I would minister to and involve myself with, maybe two men, and then as he goes out and involves himself with someone else, we begin to multiply ourselves.

Now maybe I could read you a quote again from this particular writer. There is a danger that happens here and I think that it does happen, and is happening, and happens at Indian Hills. When, we get involved in this kind of ministry, there’s a stress and again, in all that I read on discipleship is that this is a costly kind of ministry. When you invest yourself in a one-on-one relationship like this, that is where the cost really is, and if you want to be popular, and if you want to have a claim, you won’t gravitate toward this kind of ministry, so there’re statements like this one. Multiplication may be costly, and in the initial stage is much slower than addition, but in the long run, it is the most effective way of accomplishing Christ’s Great Commission and the only way.

Now I have a problem with that. It looks nice on paper. The fact is, its not being done. We have people who have been carrying on one-on-one discipleship in Lincoln before I came and the city is still not reached. Now we have organizations that have been carrying on and it’s always easy to say, well the chain breaks down. I realize the chain breaks down because God never established the chain. A couple of other references. This grates on me but I’ll read it in love, and I want our study to be profitable, and I make my side comments, but I don’t want you to take offense. I appreciate those who have invested their lives in other people. I appreciate the results of the care and love that’s been manifested to other believers, and I would not in any way take or detract from the fact that many people have been used in many other people’s lives and there have been great blessings.

“It is easy to see that the training process needed to insure multiplication is slow and costly. It takes a tremendous amount of time, and whenever you endeavor to insert a shortcut, you jeopardize the whole process. That is why the ministry of multiplying disciples has never been popular. Everybody likes the results it produces but few are willing to pay the price to obtain the results.” As as example, a friend of mine and I were talking about the discipling ministry and he said, “I am in the process of discipling fifty men right now.” At that point, I realized that he and I were talking about two different, entirely different things. “For it is impossible to train fifty people at the same time. Disciples cannot be mass-produced” and here is the Scriptural background. “While on earth, our Lord Jesus Christ was God in the form of man. He was endowed with every spiritual gift. He did not have any of our weaknesses or failings. He did not have the heavy responsibilities of being married or running a business. His time was completely devoted to the ministry, yet with all these advantages He felt that He could effectively train only twelve, and even out of the twelve, to really major in three.”

In my study of the Gospels, I had a hard time developing to the extent that most of these writers do on the majoring on the three. I realize that three were closer to Christ in His ministry, but I don’t find maybe the intensity of involvement with the three that many find here. “If twelve was the number our Lord decided on I doubt if we, with all our limitations, can plan to effectively disciple fifty at one time.” Again, what we’re doing is taking what Christ was carrying on during His earthly ministry and saying, “This is the way we do it.” It totally ignores what is developed in the epistles. How is Christ maturing men today in this basic relationship? He gives an example, and I share with you, because many who do this feel they have scriptural support, and I believe they have to be true to their scriptural conviction. I simply want to share with you where I see a conflict.

An example is Paul and Titus, and he quotes from 2 Corinthians chapter 2 verses 12 and 13. “When I came to Troas to preach Christ’s gospel, and a door was opened unto me in the Lord, I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother, but taking leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.” Paul was stirred in his spirit because he hadn’t heard from Titus, so he abandoned that ministry for the time at Troas, and went on into Macedonia hoping to see Titus. Now the explanation given. When Paul came to Troas, not only did the Lord provide an opportunity to preach the gospel, but also people who were ready to listen, but Paul had a problem. He did not know the whereabouts of his collaborator Titus. Because of this, he turned down the opportunity to reach the whole city of Troas and left in search of his brother Titus. We would tend to think he made a wrong decision because he was allowing sentiment to rule his judgment, but perhaps finding Titus was more important than preaching to the whole city of Troas just then.

Why? Because if Paul reached Titus and trained him, he would double the effectiveness of his ministry, and together they could turn around and reach two cities as Troas instead of just one. The problem with that has nothing to do with what Paul is talking about with Titus. You know why Paul wanted to confront Titus? Titus was bringing him news of how the Corinthian church had responded to his very harsh letter, and he wanted to hear what Titus had to say about how the Corinthians had responded to his rebuke. It had nothing to do with thinking now if I can only get together with Titus and disciple him, we can invest ourselves in two cities, and multiply ourselves. I think what we have is someone taking this multiplication concept, thinking it was a great idea, and then impressing it upon the Scriptures. That has nothing to do with Paul’s search for Titus. Nothing to do with it at all, and there are other examples that I really don’t find any more pertinent.

Now he goes on to again make the note and this is repeated. I think that at least we need to be aware of it. “The discipling ministry lacks the glamor and excitement of the platform or large meeting type of ministry, but we can hardly over emphasize the importance of investing in the right kind of person. One of vision and discipline totally committed to Jesus Christ, willing to pay any price to have the will of God fulfilled in his life.” I tell you if there’s a person like that he doesn’t need to be discipled in the way their talking about, the right kind of person, one of vision, discipline and totally committed to Jesus Christ. I’d say that’s a pretty mature person. Willing to pay any price to have the will of God fulfilled in his life. That is a mature person. “Sticking with a person and helping him to overcome obstacles involved in becoming a disciple is a long and arduous task. “Every Christian should ask himself two questions. Who is my Paul, who is the person I am learning from who is helping me to become a multiplying disciple maker and secondly, where is my Timothy? Where is the person I am in turn helping to become a multiplying disciple maker?”

That stressed that this is what has to be done and if you don’t see yourself in this, there is maybe the desire for the glamor, and the glory of it. There have been those who shared this with me in a concern, and a biblical concern that perhaps the reason I’m not involved in this, is I desire the glory and I get glory from preaching. Here are hundreds of people listening to me, and if that’s the motivation, there’s no reward for it, but I’m convinced that you can disciple five hundred people at one time through the ministry of the word of God. A little bit further elaboration. Let me just read you one other quote. “In a discipling relationship, the discipler is the spiritual guardian of the disciple.” That’s in this relationship. He is the spiritual guardian; the discipler is overseeing the spiritual walk of the person. Overseer literally means, one who watches over, which best explains the guardianship, thus the discipler is watching over the disciple in his growth. Hebrews 13:17 speaking of leaders expresses this idea. “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account.”

As I shared last week, I have a hard time with this and I want to share something on leadership in just a moment, so you can see you become totally responsible. This is developed in this particular book on discipleship for the entire spiritual growth of the person. Ephesians 4, in his development it’s invested here with the leader. Where I find Ephesians 4 invested here in the entire body. There is no way I can Ephesians 4 you. I could be one of the processes in Ephesians 4 as pastor-teacher for “training the saints for the work of the ministry to the building up of the body of Christ,” but what that passage goes on to talk about is the mutual interaction and development.

Now a word as this particular man mentioned discipleship, and leadership that comes out of it. Let me share with you the pattern I see developed in the New Testament for biblical leadership. This has broad ramifications. We’re going to be talking about leadership as it pertains to this local church further down the line and some adjustments we may be making. I see biblically, as relates to the body of Jesus Christ, the church, Jesus Christ is the head, Colossians chapter 1 and other passages. Then I find that elders are established in the New Testament to oversee the body, and there are a number of passages we’ll take note of in a moment. Under elders, I see deacons, men who have spiritual responsibility entrusted to them. You might put gifted men here, and I put that here because you may have a person with a gift of administration, who is not necessarily functioning as an elder or deacon, but he is providing some leadership, but you have to be careful. If this man is not qualified as an elder or deacon, you have to be careful just because he is gifted in administration, he does not come up here, and then you have a problem, arrogance and pride and so on. Then you have the congregation. Now this is not saying that the congregation, the body of believers down here is inferior to the elders. It’s simply saying this is the pattern of God’s leadership in the body.

This is the body, so this is the breakdown, organizationally or leadership wise of this. There is order and all the gifts functioning. There is still leadership provided for the body, and that is in the context of elders. Now this is where I have a question. In these ministries, if it’s not elders, developed according to the specific qualifications of Scripture, what you have then is people saying, “well I believe God wants me to be a leader,” and I develop, call it a disciple, call it a trainee, whatever under me. Now where does the authority for this come from? I really have a question about this. Now, for instance, like a passage that I’ve just quoted. This man quotes from Hebrews 13:17. I simply take upon myself, now I tell you;, “if you do not obey me, you’re not obeying the Lord.” Said whom? Now I believe that’s true where there are elders who have met the biblical qualifications and are recognized by the body as those who are leaders, but here you have people just spinning off doing their own thing, and assuming now they are the leaders and so those who I disciple should obey me.

Another area of difficulty that I have and again this is not, as I mentioned, any particular order, is the emphasis in discipleship on (there are four steps or five steps) whatever that every believer needs to know to grow to maturity, and I could read you—they’re the same steps. I don’t know whether everybody reads everybody else’s material or what, but I have yet to read any different material in the books on discipleship than I’m reading. They say the same thing. They’ve even got the same points, use the same illustrations and that’s not bad. It’s not good, it’s just my observation. I think that Christ could have simplified the ministry of the church. Paul could have simplified Timothy’s ministry if he had simply told him, “if you build these four things into a person, you will build maturity.” That again is not the biblical pattern, and one of the questions and comments was on 2 Timothy chapter 3. Turn over there quickly.

Now you remember in Matthew 28, the Great Commission. Jesus said that to make disciples they were to “teach them all things that I commanded you.” Teach them everything. Now in 2 Timothy 3:16, “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable, for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, in order that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” I believe that this process is carried out when we teach them everything. That’s why I am skeptical and very hesitant. I believe there ought to be order in our teaching, but we say these are the four things, that we build into a disciple—that’s not what Christ said, He said everything. I believe that God could have simplified the New Testament for us, when He had Paul write the letter to the Ephesians for example, or the letter to Timothy if he had simply said, “Timothy here are the four things. How to study the Scriptures. How to Pray. How to witness. How to fellowship.”

Why? You don’t produce balance. Now I don’t say that you could never have that kind of a lesson or that kind of a sermon, but it’s interesting to me, how did God put together the letters of the New Testament and then the New Testament for us? He mixed all this material together, because all Scripture has this profit and it’s as I am presented a balanced diet of the word of God, the Spirit of God takes that word and produces this within me.

Now the word is sometimes used in special cases to reprove, to correct, for training in regard to righteousness. That can happen on a broad level; it can happen on a one-on-one basis. I can reprove you as hundreds of people are sitting here listening to the word. Sometimes we’re going through a passage of Scripture and I am reproved by it, because of what it says to me, in my situation. I may be part of a group.

One of the most convicting times I ever went through in my life was when there was a man speaking to hundreds of people and that Scripture he used just drove home right to my heart. I was reproved by it. Nobody came one-on-one to me. The Spirit of God took that word and drove it like a knife into me, so that goes on. Now there may be times when you take the Scripture, go talk to a believer, and deal with him about a particular area of his life. It can happen in a broad context. It’s the ministry of the word though. I think that we need to be careful about becoming more organized than God is. In other words, the way He put it together and I don’t say that the way that I study the Scripture and teach the Scripture, verse by verse is the only way to do it. I simply think that it’s the best, most effective--it accomplishes the job. It’s the way God put it together.

Now I think He could have done it a differently and I think there are other ways to do it, but I think you need to be careful to have a balance. What happens, you end up with people who have gone through these four things and now if I don’t have a pattern to go through Scripture and he refers to it, about a man who told him how he studied the Scripture. He told me how he used Hebrew and Greek and I soon figured out that wouldn’t be of any value in passing on to anyone else. Well remember God never said you had to study the Scriptures like I do because He hasn’t called you to do what I have to do. That ties partly to my gift of teaching and preaching the word of God.

I think that we need to be careful about neat packages. We live in a day where we like everything canned. We want to get everything in a nice package and so I need to be careful, there’s no short cut to maturity. It’s the input of the word of God in submission to the Spirit, over time, that produces maturity, and that happens within the body. Now, as I function I have to be obedient to the word for I realize I’m to be a functioning part of the body, so I begin to look where God could use me in the body and it all proceeds to the development.

One other area of discipleship connected to it and then we’ll draw this aspect to a close. I’m impressed, and I may have mentioned this last week, that all I can find on discipleship originates outside the church, in what we would call parachurch organizations. One of the books I have here was written by a man who’s on the staff of John MacArthur’s church. John MacArthur writes the introduction to the book, but the approach and the material is basically that which is produced by a parachurch and now it is being carried on within the context of a local church. It hasn’t changed any. The church plays no significant part in the whole book. It’s simply now I do this here just like I would do it someplace else.

Para, the Greek word, means beside or alongside of. A parachurch organization is an organization that goes alongside the church and I simply throw out and it’s something I’ve been considering over the years in my study of the Scriptures that one, I know that the bible does not say that you cannot have parachurch organizations. I don’t find any place where it says you should not have a parachurch organization, so I believe then that a person is responsible before God. He has to do what he believes God wants him to do, but I do question the kind of thinking, where since the church is not doing the job, I come up with plan B. I come out here and develop an organization to do it, and since I developed something out here to run alongside the church, then I develop a program as well to go with it.

Since Ephesians 4 has the development-taking place within the body, the local body and now, I’m not going to function in the local body because I don’t appreciate its effectiveness or lack of effectiveness. I’ve started my own group, therefore I start my own program and all I can find on discipleship is finding its origin in those involved in parachurch ministries. Now I would agree that the local church has been paralyzed, not been effective. I think one of the reasons is leadership. We have taken this, and praise the Lord we don’t do this at Indian Hills, and put the congregation up here and we gear it for inactivity. Parachurch organizations are streamlined. Let me tell you. You have a couple, two people making decisions that can direct the body where it’s to go. If you’ve got the average form of congregational government—it’s more trouble than it’s worth to try to make changes. You don’t think so? I’ll let you talk to some pastors that I’ve talked to, and invariably the most discouraging thing, is the organizational structure they have in their church.

I’ve talked to a man that is a bible teacher and all of you know him. He’s preached in this church, and he’s coming to Lincoln to have a ministry and his initials are W. W. and he’s written lots of books. Do you know what he said to me? We were talking about duration of ministry. He said, “what I believe, if you found a church with the kind of organization and board that you could work with and get things done, you could invest your life there.” I thought that was interesting, he said “that was the thing that he would have to see.” Now I could see you could invest your life some place if it had the kind of structure and the kind of board you could work with to get things done. You know what happens? You end up getting so frustrated with this kind of system that you begin to change, to look for variety. Probably this is the devil changing the way things go. You put the congregation up here where it doesn’t belong. There are those appointed as leaders.

I want to talk a little bit more about parachurch organizations next week, just sharing some observations and our responsibility as a body of believers. I think we’ve gone on long enough this evening and I do want to take just a few minutes to give you a chance to respond and make any comments, observation questions that you might have. I appreciate the fact that this has been somewhat disorganized, but at least you’ve gotten the point. When I write my book on it then you can read it.

That’s right, Christ did say that we would do greater things than He has done, so the analogy that I read is not accurate, even on that level, that Christ could do more than we did because He said we’d do greater things as a result of the Spirit’s ministry.

Oh, you’re my kind of man. That’s all, we’ll just finish in prayer. All right, two things and I think that’s a good point and I think that is one very true reason, for the success of parachurch organizations beyond just the discipling—because of their emphasis on, “How to” in the specific area that they zero in on. First, I’d say that the responsibility, the monkey, so to speak is on my back. When Paul writes to the churches, he simply tells them biblically what they are to do and exhorts them to do it. Now if I’m going to resist the Spirit’s ministry, I’ll probably resist Him, even, you know, once I become aware of what the word tells me to do, but I think there’s advantage in keeping track of one another, and so I would see that perhaps like in our Timothy groups.

I’d hope that we would move toward this, where we could have more of a personal awareness of one another, so I think that point is well taken, but we do need to be aware of one another, so we see a believer faltering we can encourage them and help them. Now with this mass of people, someone can develop problems and no one knows about it until they’re so far gone that it’s very difficult to reach them. I think that we do need that kind of personal help and so I agree the church has not. We have to acknowledge the church has not been as effective as it should be. I would want to admit to that, I want to develop that next week somewhat.

I mentioned this last week and I think that 2 Timothy 2:2 simply says what we’ve been saying, and I hear some of you rattling. Maybe you want to go to 2 Timothy 2:2. There’s another thing I hate, people that are always throwing Scripture at me. I don’t mean on this case, not that case! You know they’re sitting there talking to you—you know it’s just like Habakkuk 2:1 and Obadiah 1:3 and Malachi 2:4 and you’re sitting there, yeah that’s right, just like it. Nope!

Second Timothy 2:2, “the things, which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” I think that’s simply the pattern that goes on. Timothy heard it among many witnesses. Well I take it he had been with those who had heard Paul teaching. He doesn’t say it was a one-on-one relationship but Timothy was one of many witnesses, and that he’s to communicate it not to a faithful man, but to faithful men. He could have told Timothy to invest your life in one good solid man and build him, but I get the idea from the Pastoral Epistles he’s talking about “men” plural.

Elders plural, so I think that the faithful men in 2 Timothy 2:2 would be elders, in light of the development that he’s already given in the first letter in chapter 3. These, faithful men that teach others would be the elders, given that responsibility and that would fit the pattern in Acts chapter 20, where the elders are given the responsibility, to safeguard the body, and to protect the body and let me say something about leadership here. We always have conflicts. Do you know why? We have some people that somehow have found a gift in the Scripture that they’re supposed to sit out here and keep an eye on the elders. I think their prime purpose in the body is to examine carefully the elders, all the time, every decision that the elders make, and everything that’s going on. They’re the elders, elders, so to speak. Are you qualified to be an elder? “Oh no!” For some reason they’re qualified to evaluate everything the elders do, not that the elders are above being checked on, scripturally, but we need to be careful. You know we live and you know it, by leadership generally. What do people do? They sit down and tell you 497 things the president does wrong, and everybody who’s going to be a candidate tells you the same thing. Then they get to be president and find out the difficulties, so I think we just need to be careful, to recognize and be sure we’re functioning biblically, so that’s a sermonette on a simple question.

Okay, I want to develop that next week so just let me say now, anything that is raised up to carry on a ministry that is not part of the church, I would say is a parachurch. It’s been raised up alongside the church, to meet a need that we believe the church is not meeting. For instance, let me take campus groups since they’re an obvious one we’re all familiar with because of the university here. They were raised up to reach a certain group of people that the church was not reaching effectively, so it was raised up along side the church. Now they often broaden out. Now it becomes difficult. They not only reach the campus but they reach the churches and now the parachurch ministry is ministering to the churches. Somehow we’ve gotten the whole thing twisted around and you feel like you’re walking on your head, but I want to talk about that next week. So basically any organization raised up for spiritual ministry apart from the church would be a parachurch in the broad definition, but I’ll elaborate a little bit on that next week.

The Navigators, and I appreciate their organization, but they would be strong on a discipleship ministry as I’ve been talking about. Walter Hendrickson, no longer with the Navigators, for twenty some years would have been a Navigator, and would take basically the same approach that I am.

Let me share with you where I’ve been on discipleship. This is a controversial area and it’s not something new. I’ve been rolling it around for years. I have a black notebook like some carry; preachers always have black. I’ve been working through some ideas, and I’ve made my notes in these notebooks over the years in my study of the word. I don’t necessarily like to take a position against other organizations the Lord’s using. I think at times I’ve been more lenient and open to use materials, to have materials used just because I had not come to that point where I was convinced that it was not the biblical way and not doing what we ought to be doing. I guess that where I feel that I am now, so I would not be comfortable using the material now, although if I had known we were using it last semester, whenever, I probably wouldn’t have said anything against it one way or the other. Although, we have been talking about it as elders and staff, off and on over the last year.

Everyone’s got to stand or fall before the Lord, not before me and is responsible to do what he believes God wants him to do and carry on the ministry God wants him to carry on. Not to carry on the ministry Gil Rugh thinks he ought to carry on, but I’m responsible to share with you, as a body, what my convictions are in light of the Scriptures as your pastor-teacher. Right and I think there are things that we can learn from them. I think there’s profitable things in these books I’ve referred to; I don’t want to say that they have nothing to teach us. I think they’ve done some things very effectively and that’s why they’ve got the results they have, so I think that there are many things that we could learn from them, but I don’t want to say I’m throwing out everything and we’d never use—you know I want to study them. I find it profitable to read these books.

Okay, next week we’ll talk a little bit further about the subject of parachurch ministry and again in a positive sense. I don’t you going out and beating the drum through the city that next week, Gil’s going to blast parachurch ministries. Be sure to come. You know if we’re not careful, we as believers, you know we hear the charge to battle and forget we’re talking about other believers and we want to minister to one another in love and for the help and building up of the body.

Ok, I appreciate your response to the word as a body of believers. You know I’ve shared with some others that there’re many churches you could not approach the word and I think that’s a tragedy but it would be such a controversial area and cause such an uproar. I appreciate your openness to the word and willingness to consider what God has said on these subjects. Above all things we want to be biblical, so that God can use us and work in us to accomplish his purposes, that’s my goal in these studies and I want it to be what God accomplishes in us over this time, so even though I pick controversial areas, it’s not to be controversial per se. It’s so that the Lord can work to challenge and stimulate us to make us more what we ought to be.

Let’s join together in prayer to close.
4