Church Leadership

Transcript

GRM 1186
06/10/2018
Church Leadership
Selected Verses
Gil Rugh

I want to talk a little bit about God’s plan for leadership in the church and as a background for that I just want to remind ourselves of God’s plan for order in His creation and God is a God of order. Now chaos has come in because of sin but from the beginning God planned order for all areas of His creation.

We talked about the creation of man as male and female in a previous study together. In Genesis 1 God said, “Let us make man in our image.” And so He says “He created man male and female, He created them.” Both in His image but created differently and even the order of creation and those matters related to that give an order.

When God created man as male and female He created them in a different order according to Genesis 2, you remember, and then later Scripture amplifies and makes clear that that order of creation and the pattern established a relationship. So even before sin entered the picture, God had created an order. Man, as male, was to be the leader. Man, as female, was to be subject to his leadership and that becomes the pattern throughout Scripture. So a higher archival relationship is not a result of the fall into sin as the Scripture makes clear. We have looked previously, so we are not going to go to those passages, I Corinthians 11; I Timothy 2 and others show that God’s pattern in creation in creating man as male and female, in creating them differently as Genesis 2 lays out, and matters related to that indicated there was an order that man was to lead.

So even when there were two people, only 2 people in the whole world, there was an order that God has established. No sin had come into the world but there was an order that God had established, and man was to be the leader. The woman was to be his support and so on.

So that reflects God’s order and plan; the fact that God created man in His image as male and female. I take it there is an order in the Godhead. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, I Corinthians 11 develops that, and the interpretation of that passage is now coming under attack from within evangelicalism, but I think it is clear, there is order within the Godhead. It does not mean that Jesus Christ, God the Son, is inferior to the Father nor that the Holy Spirit is inferior. Each is fully God and all the attributes of deity belong to each of those, but there is an order in the creation. I think the creation of man and humanity reflects that. There is a spiritual equality with the man as male and as female. The man and the woman had a spiritual equality, but there is an order. So, within the Godhead there is that order as well.


In the angelic world that God created, there is an order. There is a hierarchy among the angels, remember. I just want to give highlights here, so we don’t get too mired down in detail, but in Daniel chapter 10 there was an angel sent from the presence of God to bring Daniel an answer to his prayer. “The angel said, ‘I have been longer in coming to you because the Prince of Persia, a demonic angel’” which you will note even though it is a fallen angel there is a recognized authority and that angel who had authority over the kingdom of Persia, that demonic angel, could keep that angel from God from coming in and that angel from God told Daniel, “I had to wait for Michael, the archangel, to come and assist me.” Michael the archangel has higher authority among the angels. So even though there has been a fall, Satan and the host that followed him, there still is a recognition of the authority that comes out mentioned in the book of Jude.

Remember, we are told in the book of Jude, that there was a dispute over the body of Moses. Satan wanted to claim it, Michael the archangel did not dare bring a railing accusation against the Devil but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” Michael the archangel as high as he is in the order of the angels but not as high evidently as Lucifer before his fall. And we have looked into passages like Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28 where Lucifer held the position of the anointed cherub who covered the throne of God. So even though he has fallen, now a sinful creature, there still is a recognition of authority in the angelic world. So, these are just some examples.

In the family there is order. We have mentioned the man and the woman when there is marriage, it is the husband and the wife and the children and children are told to obey their parents, be in submission to their parents. Ephesians chapter 5 and chapter 6 talk about the wife being “submissive to her husband, the husband loving his wife and the children being submissive to their parents.” This is the will of God.

In Romans chapter 1, one of the evidences of sin and rebellion against God is the fact of children rebelling against their parents. You read that at the end of Romans chapter 1. So, there is an order that God has established in all these different areas.

There is an order in the execution of human government. Go to Romans 13. Again, I have not taken time to go to these passages. We have looked at them in detail on other occasions and I want to focus on the church, but I do want you to look at Romans 13 because there is a principle here that will apply to all of these. In Romans 13, verse 1 “Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities for there is no authority except from God. Those which exist are established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God.” This is a serious matter. You say, “Well they are not Christians.” It doesn’t matter. God has established order in His creation. It is to be followed. We don’t have godly men. You think of the Roman Emperors. There were no godly Roman emperors that Paul and the others of New Testament time had to deal with. The most infamous of course that we are familiar with was Nero but the others, you submit to them. You honor them and if you don’t you are in rebellion against God. “Whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance, the rule, the command of God” because He appointed them.

Now that doesn’t mean He approves everything they do. That doesn’t mean you would obey them if they tell you to do something contrary to the clear instruction of the Word. In other words, if they tell you to deny Jesus Christ, if they tell you that you cannot worship Christ, things like that, but you may have strong opinions, conservative or liberal, that doesn’t count. You still submit. You pay your taxes as the Scripture makes clear. It doesn’t matter. I don’t agree with what they use my taxes for. Well, that is not your decision. The governmental authorities are in place. These Roman emperors used the taxes that they took from the people for the most profane and godless kinds of things, but the responsibility of believers is to recognize God has put them in authority for His purposes and we submit to their authority; in doing so we submit to the authority of God.

That is the principle that follows through in all of our relationships; male, female, husband, wife, government, country. I mean the principle of authority, this becomes key.

We sort of categorize things. This is serious business when God says, “When you resist the authority He has established” and we just went through some of the areas of authority He has established, “you are opposing God’s ordinance.” This is not opposing man. This is opposing God. What kind of position do we put ourselves in when we oppose God? This was true in Israel. God appointed leadership for Israel.

I want you to come back to one example, Numbers chapter 16 and this will be the last we will look at and then we will jump to the church. What we are going to say about the church is true throughout God’s creation. Numbers 16 Moses and Aaron, Aaron as his “right hand man” and leading the priestly side of the nation have been appointed by God to be the leaders. There were some very important men in Israel who didn’t think they were doing a good job and they had too much authority. So Korah, the chapter opens up. We don’t need to go into the details. Verse 2 with some other individuals, other men, “They rose up before Moses together with some of the sons of Israel, 250 leaders of the congregation. They got a good following, 250 important men chosen in the assembly, men of renown. They assembled together against Moses and Aaron and said, ‘You’ve gone far enough. For all of the congregation are holy every one of them. The Lord is in their midst. Why do you exalt yourselves above the assembly in the Lord?’” There is an element of truth in what they say. All of Israel was to be a holy nation. They were to be a people in fellowship and relationship with God but that didn’t mean they were all equal in authority.

Some of you have studied the Scripture enough, you note what Moses tells them down in verse 11, “Therefore you and all your company are gathered together against the Lord.” Why? Because God appointed Moses and Aaron and when you oppose them and their leadership you have opposed the ordinance of God. God makes clear how he takes care of that and you are aware down in verse 31 Korah and his supporters come together. Verse 31, “The ground that was under them split open. The earth opened its mouth, swallowed them up and their households and all the men who belong to Korah with their possessions. They went alive down to sheol.”

It is hard to find a more definitive action of judgment by God on His people for sin than this. You know I think sometimes we as believers can get in our thinking a little bit like Korah. We are all godly. We are all holy. We all have a relationship with God. That’s great. It doesn’t change God’s appointed authority. That doesn’t give me authority over the mayor of the city or the governor of the state or the president of the United States. He is not even a believer. That’s alright. God has told me as a believer to be subject and among ourselves there is an order established and that is what we are going to look at, the church. God has established order for the church.

I have three words I want you to look at. These words, I want to mention them, because there are three basic forms of church government that go outside of what I have here but since they are drawn from these names, these are three words for elders. We are going to see they are synonymous, but they have been broken out. The word translated ‘overseer;’ I have transliterated the Greek word, it is episkopos. You know that Episcopal, sometimes translated bishop, because it is a government by bishops. So, in church history they developed by separating these out, a form of church government governed by bishops. That’s basically held by those who don’t hold that the Bible is the sole authority. We read the defense of it. They go to church history.

One of the writers I was reading, defending the episcopal form of government, says, “We don’t hold the sola of scriptura. We also bring in the writings of the fathers and the development of church history.” The most obvious form of this government is the Roman Catholic Church where the pope has the ultimate authority. Then he rules; under him the cardinals and the bishops and so on. That is that form of government. But others, the Anglican Church, the Episcopal Church in the United States which is the same as the Anglican Church, follows the form of government by bishops. And it is a hierarchy not as tight as the Roman Catholic Church but you have an archbishop, the archbishop of Canterbury but he doesn’t have the same authority but it is a similar structure. Then under him you have sub authorities down to the local church. And they are governed and ruled by bishops.

Episkopos, it is a literal translation overseer. Those first three words, ‘epi’ are the Greek preposition for over and ‘skopos’ you know you say something, you are going to scope something out. You have a scope on a rifle. You have a telescope. It all comes from the Greek word we have here; so, overseer, the one who looks over. That is where we have overseer.

Elder and that word is presbiteros. Guess what kind of government that is, Presbyterian. So, there is a Presbyterian form of government and the Presbyterian form of government uses elders but there is a hierarchy again. The final authority is not in the local church in the episcopal form of government nor is it in the Presbyterian. The Presbyterian form of government you have the congregation and the congregation selects elders and they usually divide the elders between teaching elders and ruling elders, but together they form the governing body of the local church. Then out of those elders in the local church, sometimes called the session, there is a presbytery and elders selected from different churches in a region together form what is called the presbytery. It has authority over the local church in a given area and then from that governing presbytery, representatives from the elders of the local church forming the next level that has authority over a region and then from that level some are selected, and they form the general assembly. So, there is a hierarchy of elders that have authority in churches. Those are two forms of government.

The third, here I used the word pastor, which is more often translated shepherd in the Bible but we use the word pastor most often. But the third form of government, if you are going to read about it, would be called congregational government. We might be more familiar with it in talking about independent churches. But congregation is the broader word that you would find if you were reading a book on forms of government.

Congregationalism says “The local congregation is its own entity and authority resides in that local congregation. There is no outside authority from that local church.” Now we usually think of congregationalism as different from elder government but the word is used more broadly of churches that are congregational, meaning all authority resides in the congregation in contrast to the Presbyterian form of government which has a hierarchy and ultimate authority resides in the general assembly of elders who have authority down the line and the same with the bishops in that sense. It is what we think of as a denominational authority.

Now there are different kinds of congregational government and we normally think of the difference between elder government and congregational government so perhaps we are more familiar with the term ‘independent churches’ meaning they are independent of any outside authority.

In those churches, and in all of these, there are variations. I am just giving you the big picture. We are a congregational church. In the broad sense we are an independent church. We are governed by a board of elders. We have a plurality of elders governing our church. This is in contrast to congregational churches that have a single elder, for example, the Baptists. For a time I was part of a Baptist church. I was baptized in a Baptist church. A single elder with the board of deacons that share governing but there is one elder and they are strong on the authority of the individual pastor, the preacher in that church; characteristic of Baptist churches among other kinds of independent churches.

I think the way of churches being governed, I think there is clarity in the instruction on church government, is there is a plurality of elders governing the local church. That does not mean there is not authority within the governing body of the elders but the elders as the elders are the governing body of the church.

I think these three words here are used interchangeably. Leave them up a moment and come to Acts chapter 20 with me. Acts chapter 20 and Paul called for the Ephesian elders in Acts chapter 20, verse 17. These are elders from the church. You will note it is plural elders of the church. “From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders” (plural) “of the church” (singular.) Then as he moves down as he talks about their responsibility, verse 28, “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.” So, you see the same group, the elders, the presbyteros, the Greek word, were called from the church and Paul says, “You were made the” episkopos, “the overseers of the church to shepherd,” there is our third word. I have put the word pastor there, but it is the word to shepherd, the Greek word poimenos connected, based on the word sheep, and then here you have the shepherd who oversees and leads the sheep.

So, you see all three words used for the same people. I think it is not sound Biblical exegesis to separate this out as though they were different offices or positions. The elders were made overseers by the Spirit of God with the responsibility to shepherd God’s people. They bring it a different perspective but the same group of people. Elders often thought of in the context of the maturity, the dignity of the office as it is sometimes put, the overseer, the responsibility for administering the body and shepherding, the care that goes on.

I want you to note here in verse 28, “The Holy Spirit has made you overseers.” It is important to understand. That doesn’t mean they are the bosses of the church. It does mean that when we follow the process, and the way we do it is, we have the 21 qualifications that are set out in I Timothy 2 and Titus 1. Those are the requirements. They must be a man who desires the office as well as being recognized by others; through that process of prayer and seeking and like we have Curt Johns testimony for deacon. He has been evaluated in light of the qualifications. He has an interest in that area; same way with the deacons. Then he is evaluated, fills out a questionnaire for the elders and after going through that process then he is recommended to the congregation. Then the congregation has opportunity to respond because you know the men in different settings, perhaps in their job, perhaps in other ways, is there anything you would think that has been overlooked or should be considered whether it is an elder or a deacon. But we have a plurality of elders.

Now in that role of elders, by virtue of my position, and I exercise perhaps more influence. It happens to the congregation because I speak to you every Sunday, morning and evening and no one else gets that privilege. But in authority every elder has one vote. I don’t vote. So, in that sense, my influence is limited but any elder can veto anything. If an elder says, “I am uncomfortable proceeding with that” then we stop on that. I don’t vote unless there would be a tie. But that would be rare. That would be if there was some kind of conflict perhaps that developed in the church and you have to have a means of resolving it. There could even be division among the elders. And we have experienced that in long past history. So, it is a little bit in the process here.

Come over to Titus chapter 1. And here verse 5, “For this reason I left you in Crete” and here he is writing to Titus. “That you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city.” Only appoint in every city because at this stage there would have been only one church in each city. We are early in church history. The elders, plural; these elders are to be directed. Some of the qualifications are given here and some of them are the same as in I Timothy chapter 2. You put it together you have about 21 qualifications that are set fast. Verse 9, “These must be men holding fast the Word of God which is in accordance with the teaching. He will be able to exhort in sound doctrine, refute those who contradict because many rebellious men, empty talkers, deceivers, especially those of the circumcision must be silenced. They are upsetting whole families teaching things they should not teach.” And these elders and you will note in verse 7 you appoint elders and here are the qualifications, “For the overseer must be above reproach.” So, this is again the elder is the overseer and they have responsibility as Acts 20 said for guarding the flock, protecting it from error, from false doctrine and things that would weaken and undermine the body. There is the battle going on already over false teaching and false doctrine.

While you are close come back to I Timothy chapter 3 as he opens up, “It is a trustworthy statement if any man aspires to the office of overseer it is a fine work he desires to do.” Then I can go into detail if you want later, but the process we go through more in detail for elders. But men may not aspire to that. Even when asked if he would be interested, may not be for whatever reason. It may not fit his schedule, other things that he has going on that would keep him from being able to assume this responsibility so there has to be the desire there for the office. We don’t talk people into becoming elder. Oh, we need you, we could use another elder. We would really like you to reconsider that. But if the man says, “No, I don’t think that is what God would have me do at this time,” that is sufficient.

Then the instructions again; he uses the word overseer here. We saw the word elders and overseer in Titus and you have the qualifications set down. They had the responsibility for the leadership.

Another passage, I Peter chapter 5, verse 1, “I exhort the elders among you as your fellow elder, witness of the sufferings of Christ, partaker of the glory that is to be revealed. Shepherd the flock of God exercising oversight.” So, there we have again. Elders, shepherd, oversight, this is the responsibility. Not under compulsion but voluntarily. Again, the same thing I mentioned from I Timothy 3, “Voluntarily according to the will of God.” And you don’t lord it over God’s people, but you are examples and you will note here, these are to shepherd the flock. Verse 4, “And when the chief shepherd appears.” So, the elders aren’t the ultimate authority in this church. Jesus Christ is. He is the Chief Shepherd but He exercises His oversight through the shepherds that He has appointed by the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Now we don’t take this seriously and it is important to understand.

I sat down and went through my almost 50 years here and it seems about every 7 years we have an all church conflict and it always if it is going to be an all church conflict, you know what it always comes back to? Did the elders do their job? Because it is the people that “well the elders took care of it,” then it doesn’t become an all church conflict. What happens when it becomes an all church conflict is some people appoint themselves as the super elders to decide if the elders did their job.

I put some questions down. Go to the elder leadership. Here are some things I would suggest that you ask yourself. First, when the elders have made their decision, are the elders requiring you to do something that is not Biblical? Secondly, are they forbidding you to do something that is Biblical? Thirdly, are they denying or changing Biblical doctrine? As far as I can tell, the doctrine of this church has not changed since I have come to be pastor and we have a clear, thorough noted doctrinal statement that goes into quite detail. I do not believe the doctrine of this church has changed. Then you might ask yourself the question, “How are you affected by their decision?”

I say this because we have had occasion where we have had doctrinal conflict. The elders have to evaluate carefully the Scripture and be sure that we are following the Scripture. I am often frustrated. I don’t expect to be given great honor. I spent ten years studying theology and Bible from preparation for the ministry after college. I have spent almost 50 years in the ministry. I have people that simply tell me, “You are not being Biblical.” But they won’t talk to be about how we are not being Biblical. I have phone calls I am still waiting for answers to. You have said I am not being Biblical. I would appreciate further explanation. Because I cannot see how we are not Biblical. They don’t even have enough respect for me or the elders. I don’t agree with how the elders handle the finances. We are leaving. I don’t want to talk to anybody and yet they think they are spiritual because they don’t talk to anybody. We just disregard. I am dumbfounded at the disdain and disrespect demonstrated to the elders by people who just write an email or a letter and make all kinds of accusations and out the door.

What about the Holy Spirit appointed these men to be leaders? And then somebody appoint themselves as the evaluator of whether the elders do their job and usually it is not something they are even involved in.

I ask people when I do have conversation, “Do you think the elders are requiring you to do something that is not Biblical? Are they forbidding something you think is Biblical? Have they changed? No. Well let me just ask. “how are you involved in this?” “Well I didn’t agree with what they did.”

You know I often tell you the test of leadership is what? It is when you disagree. Every wife submits to her husband when he just does everything she wants. Every child will submit to his parents when they do whatever he wants. Buy me a new car for my 16th birthday. Oh, we would love to. It will be in the driveway. And I want you to give me enough money to go out and shop. Oh, that will be great too. And I don’t think you should set a curfew for me. That’s fine. We won’t do that either. There is no conflict.


It is not a matter whether you agree with the elders. You create frustration when you take to yourself a responsibility God has given to someone else. I remember many years ago talking with a dear family and they were frustrated. I said, “Why are you frustrated? You have taken upon yourself the responsibility given to the elders and he doesn’t give you the grace to fulfill that responsibility. So, it is not amazing that you are frustrated.

I mention this because before a conflict comes, we all agree we have godly men as elders. No one is questioning their qualification so when we come up with an issue, we will trust the Lord will lead us through those godly men.

You are in Peter and then we have to stop for questions, Hebrews, chapter 13, verse 17, “Obey your leaders and submit to them for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account.” The elders will give an account for you. This is serious business for the elders. “Let them do this with joy and not with grief for this would not be profitable for you.” The elders say, “Look like Moses. You know what happened after the ground opened up and swallowed Korah and the 250 men joined in rebellion and fire consumed them and so on.” The very next day do you know what the people did? They grumbled against Moses and Aaron and said, “It’s your fault all this happened.” So, 14,000 more people died under the judgment of God.

God’s principle of leadership for the church is simple. It is clear. That doesn’t mean the elders will make every decision you would make but God appointed them as elders and I say to you I am just talking elders distinction you know, not singling you individually and we recognize and support their leadership just like I support the president, pray for him. I supported the previous president and the previous one before that and supported him. Why? God says “submit to them. Pray for those in authority.” I have to model. I don’t want to be in rebellion against God. I tell God, “Well he is not the man I would have put in place.” I don’t want to tell Him that. I submit to what He does.

Alright we are going to stop there and go to questions. So think about your questions while I gather my stuff and hobble down to the next level. I even brought a book on the Puritans but I didn’t read you from it.

Okay let me stop and open it up to you first before I turn to any questions. There was a brief summary, but I want to get it all in and have time for you. Anybody have any question you came with? I did receive one and it tied to what we talked about last week. Let me mention that one. Maybe it will get you going. I just got this one. “The Southern Baptist Conference is reconsidering redefining complementarianism in order to more fully empower women.” Complementarianism is seeing men and woman are compliments to one another in contrast to feminism which just says they are equal meaning they are the same. “It has been suggested that they nominate a woman for the presidency of the conference. Their defense is that the Southern Baptist Convention is a para-church organization therefore not the church.”

Would you please speak to this issue in light of I Timothy 2:12. Are woman relegated only to teaching mandates found in Titus 2 or are there other areas they can teach?

First let me say – Southern Baptist Convention is in a constant state of conflict because it is comprised of theological conservatives and theological liberals and the future in that setting is always bleak. They think they can work it out as Baptists but those who are undermining the Scripture and the authority of Scripture is constantly under attack.

Let me say something about para-church ministries.

I don’t think you get around the Scripture by starting your own organization, a para-church organization and say “Well we are not the church so we don’t have to follow the guidelines God gave to the church.” God established the church to be the pillar and support of the truth. I take the guidelines on those who are to teach the Word are the guidelines for those who are to teach the Word. I don’t think para-churches, just because we don’t call ourselves a church, then quit doing the work that is given to the church. Get in a church and help the church to do what it should do instead of starting an organization and then “well we don’t have to do. You have to understand we are a para-church which means we include a lot more people than a local church so we have variety so we have to be broader.” What are we doing to Scripture? Couldn’t God have started a para-church?

You know with all the trouble in the churches you never find Paul coming up with an alternative to the church. Jesus evaluated the seven churches at the end of the first century in Revelation chapter 2 and 3 and five of the seven are in trouble but He doesn’t say, “Well you better start something else your church isn’t working.” He said you better get your church working. I think God’s plan is the church. Now if somebody else is going to do it differently that is their business.

From my perspective you don’t create an alternative to the church and then say we don’t have to do what the Word of God says here. What is your authority? Well now we can put women in positions. God says this is the role of a woman. This is not just teaching in the church. This is an order that God established for His creation and He applies it to the church because he is the Creator and His people of all people ought to be doing what He said His original will is in the creation.

I think it is just the way the church gets moved away from the authority and you know what will happen? Since the Southern Baptist Convention can say in this, “Well we are broader than that and the convention has to be broader than just the local church.” That will all filter down and the corruption will spread. It is a relentless battle with the world.

And the Southern Baptist Convention, I have often said, “You have to have Baptist in your blood to be a member of a convention like this because and I have visited with the President of the convention and the President of the seminary and it is a constant battle between the liberals and the conservatives, those who believe in the full inspiration of Scripture and those who don’t; those who are constantly trying to push it. I say “split, break. You can’t live together with the devil.” That is why I am not Southern Baptist.

So, I feel strongly about para-church. God’s plan is the local church. Now if people want to start their own organizations they are accountable to the Lord. But our focus here is on the ministry of the local church God has given and if I am asked my opinion I don’t think you can take what God says is the churches ministry and create your own organization and say we don’t have to follow what the Bible says there because we are not a church. That is just a subtle way to undermine the authority of Scripture. And it is not so subtle.

Gil, speaking of our church in the evaluation question, “if we were a church in Revelation 2 to 3 what positive and negative things do you think God would say about us?”

Well I hope He would say we are faithful with the Word. That is key and faithful in putting the Word into practice. That is the standard. Are we being faithful with the truth as He evaluates them? Are we tolerating things that He says should not be tolerated? You have there those who were teaching this doctrine. It should not be taught there.

So, we have to remain as narrow as Scripture. We have to remain faithful to Scripture in season and out of season. It may be we are coming into a time of out of season in our country with the ministry of God’s truth as God has given it. So, let’s broaden it. Are people going to want to come to our church with our view of the role of men and women? Are people going to want to come to our church if we hold this, if we hold that? Well, all we have to do is please the head of the church, Jesus Christ.

You can appreciate the elders that we have as we work through conflicts and battle. What does the elder say, “We have to do what is Scriptural. We have to do what is Biblical.” You don’t know how many hours are spent sorting through things when difficulties come, when conflicts come and people have little if any real true knowledge of the situation intrude themselves and undermine the confidence of the people in the elders.

Let me tell you something here while I am on a roll. I have some problems with some of my pastor friends over this. They claim to believe in the independent local church and the authority of elders but when they have opinions that are different they insert themselves and undermine the authority and confidence in God’s people in the authority of their elders and that is sin. There is no excuse for it. It denies what they teach because they teach that God has appointed elders as the authority of that local church.

When I sat and talked with some of them face to face I said, “I can’t believe you men think you are more godly and should assert your authority over the elders God has appointed.” Do you know what one of them said to me? “Maybe we are.” That is arrogance. God did not give them authority.

When I have been contacted, and I have been asked to assert myself into the affairs of another church even though I may have problems with that church, I told them “I am not an elder there. I have no authority there. Our elders are not elders there. They have no authority there.” We would not. They wanted to give me the material that all those elders had done wrong. I handed it back and said, “I am not open to read it and furthermore, you cannot be a part of this church criticizing those elders. That is not your business.”

This idea that and pastors can be terrible. Somebody came in from one of the churches to say to me, “You know it is troublesome. Pastors are always experts on how serious other people’s sin is.” But these pastors come in, undermine the confidence of people in our elders and then they run off to their own churches and think we are so spiritual. We are glad we have corrected that.

The sheep get scattered all over. I don’t have any time for it. It is sin. Rebellion against God’s leaders is sin. Now doesn’t mean if a person believes God is leading them to another church, I don’t want anybody here that God wants to be in another church. Get where God wants you, but if you are going just because you don’t like decisions the elders made, you better get things right with the Lord. You won’t be any asset to anybody else either. But that is not a critique of everybody who leaves and goes someplace else. You’ve got to be where the Lord wants you and then you agree you are submitting to those elders and then going to serve.

Okay, you get a sermon with every question. That keeps the question number down. I don’t have to have so many answers. Anybody have another question?

Tell me tell you how we go about picking elders just to wrap that up at Indian Hills.

We are elder government and the elders are the sole authority for this church. That doesn’t mean we can’t consult with others if we choose but others have no authority to insert themselves in the affairs of this church and it is sin for them to do so.

When we are considering the board as we talk that maybe we should look to adding another person or two or whatever to the elders. We pray about it. The elders talk and say, “let’s give consideration” and after prayer and talking and so on and sometimes we will say, “let’s each make a list of three or four men that you might see as qualified to be an elder, that you might recommend.” Then at another meeting, the next meeting perhaps we will say, “Okay, have you brought your list? Does somebody have a name from their list?” So, they will give the name and we will write the name on the board at the elders meeting and then I will ask how many of the rest of you have that name on your list? So, they might say, six of the elders have them on their list, so you mark six there. Alright, does somebody have another name, give another name? How many of you have that name on your list? So we narrow down that way and look and see well there are one, two, three how many men we are looking at that were on most lists. So there seems to be an agreement. Does anybody have a question or a doubt about any of these men? And all it takes from an elder is to say when we go down the names, “right now I would be uncomfortable with that.” We remove the name. He doesn’t have to say why. So that is why I say, “every elder has authority there and if one of the elders, we are not going to have him tell us “what do you think” and we will see if he has a problem, we have enough confidence in each elder that he will be dealing with it Biblically, and we narrow it down. If we end up then with a name or two, however, then someone from the elders approaches that person and asks them. “The board of elders has talked about you. We are considering whether you would be open to consider being an elder at Indian Hills?” They may say, “Well at this time I don’t think it is something I could take on.” There are a variety of things.

To be a part of the board of elders other than the Biblical qualifications, you have to have a schedule that you can meet with the elders. If you work steady 4:00 – 12:00 you probably won’t be on the board because there would be no board meetings you could attend. So, you have to have a schedule. Sometimes you know, “I am traveling too much, I would miss too many meetings.” It could be a variety of things, where I am with other responsibilities. It doesn’t matter; if the person says “Yes, I would be open to that,” we invite them to attend some elder meetings. Sit in. Because they have to see, would I be comfortable in this mix, the things the elders have to work through, the things they do and talk about. Do I see myself fitting with these men and then after they have done that they want to proceed, they might after attending a couple meetings say, “You know I don’t think this is where the Lord would have me at this time.” That’s fine. That doesn’t mean they are not godly. They’re godly men. We have a number of men who are qualified to be elders but don’t sit as elders. That’s fine.

If they are open, then we give them the elder questionnaire to fill out. After they fill out that questionnaire which has both personal information and doctrinal questions, then it is distributed to the elders. The elders go through it and see if they are comfortable with the answers, they are where we are doctrinally and so on, then we invite them for an interview with the board. Then after that interview and the information we have, then the board decides whether to recommend them to you as a congregation. Similar to what we have done with the deacon this evening and then they will give their testimony. Then we ask you to respond. If you say, “Well I had a situation one time where I wonder if it has been resolved. Well then we will have one of the elders go and talk with them about that and we get results.

So, the congregation has input. When that is all done then we as elders, when we meet, have there been any issues or questions raised about this person? No. They will say if they have had some people say they would make a good elder or deacon and then we vote. If along the way, for whatever reason an elder had some doubts come, they could stop it by just saying I would be uncomfortable following through with this. Then we would have to tell the person, “At this time the board has decided we are not going to proceed with your candidacy. That could happen at any time.

So we as a board function basically, unanimously, but you have to have a place to deal. We have to function legally according to our constitution. So according to our constitution the decisions of the majority of the board are the decisions of the board. I don’t vote unless there is a tie but we usually don’t bring things to a vote if there is a sense that we are not in agreement. So, generally we function with agreement but there could be a case for example where an elder got off track. Well if you require unanimity you are not going to get that elder’s vote so legally we are unable to proceed because we can’t function according to our constitution because you have to have all of the elders agree. So, we have it in there in case something like that would come.

I direct the meetings, Jeff puts the agenda together. When he became a staff member, he no longer is an official member of the board. He sits with the board and he prepares the agenda for the board and obviously has much input because he has worked through the different things in putting the agenda together and getting material for different ones but only the non-staff elders vote. I am the only staff elder who is an official member of the board and I only vote if there would be a tie. That would indicate some kind of division within the board.

Alright that is a little bit of how we operate and how we function. We will stop there. I do have some of your questions. I don’t want you to think I have forgotten them. I brought them but some of them I will be dealing with along the way more as a study, more like I did with the elder leadership tonight and then the questions. I am just sort of holding them for that and they give me ideas. So if you have some things that you would like addressed or questions you have, write them down. Put them in the offering bag, e-mail them to Jeff. You can submit them also over the internet, Facebook and so on.

Let’s have a word of prayer together. Thank You Lord for the way You have blessed us as a congregation. You have called us together as Your people in this place. We thank You for the many other believers around the world, the many congregations but Lord you have called us together as Your church in this place. And we are blessed to serve You together as one body diversity of gifts. Thank You for the elders that the Spirit has appointed, godly men that provide oversight and leadership. Lord we want to be faithful in our service for You. Bless the week before us we pray in Christ’s name amen.