Questions and Answers, Part 10

Transcript

GRM 1206
11/18/2018
Question and Answer, Part 10
Selected Verses
Gil Rugh

Just a word about where we’re going on Sunday nights. There probably won’t be much change as we move toward the end of the year. Some of our Sunday nights will be altered with special programs and so on, dealing with some subjects and your questions. After the turn of the year, I’ll probably mix it up with perhaps a couple of theological studies. Some of your comments weren’t particularly questions, but suggestions or things you’d be interested in. I may address some of those. Perhaps I’d like to take a couple of the shorter books of the bible. I might like to deal with you and mix in question times. So, we’ll just see how that unfolds as we move along.


Tonight, I want to talk about some of your questions and then open it up to you. I’ve received some different questions that I want to address. But, perhaps a basic one, this isn’t a question but something I downloaded from the internet, it’s been a couple of weeks ago now, I guess. But it’s on the bible, some of you may have seen it, it was on a secular news site. Two secret churches in North Korea show how powerful the bible really is, and I’m going to talk a little bit about the word of God in a moment. But, here’s how it goes. In the early morning light, a small group of North Korean believers meet on the riverbank, lugging their fishing gear with them. Quietly they load into a small boat and push off from the land. It’s not until they are far into the middle of the river that they dare dig through their gear and pull out their bibles. This is the only place where they feel safe enough to worship together and study God’s word. Even then they are on constant alert. If they are caught reading the bible, they could immediately be sentenced to 15 years in a labor camp or worse. That’s why, when another boat approaches, they panic and scramble to hide their bibles. It’s the police, someone shouts.

Only after the man in the boat greets them in the name of Jesus and tells them he has a gift for them, do they start to calm down. He sees their bibles and the believers who own one hand them over to him. And there are only a few bibles among the church members. Not nearly enough for everyone and each copy is practically falling apart. After years of being carefully studied and hidden over and over again, the bindings have become loose, the pages are beginning to slip out. Many have water damage from these early mornings on the boat. But they are still these Christians’ prize possessions. They risk their lives for these bibles. And then this stranger, who ends up being a believer, has secured some new bibles for these believers. Just a reminder, remember to whom much is given, much is required.

We have the freedom to have as many bibles as we want personally. The freedom to come and study like this. How much accountability do we have to be serious about the word? The danger for us is a little different, but it’s just as real as for these believers. Their danger they face is coming from the outside of being caught studying the word. Our danger is taking the word that is so available to us for granted. The opportunities to get together to study it become taken for granted, and I’ve done that a lot as I’ve been to a lot of studies. But we never want to take for granted the privilege that is ours to study the word, which is a treasure. Like the psalmist says, he treasures it more than his food.

You can see the decline in interest. I think believers become so absorbed in the business of things around them and we find ourselves being squeezed. And what gets squeezed is the word of God. Several years ago, there were some in our city who wanted us to divert certain Sunday nights from meeting together as a church family. I told them I was not willing to do that. I said, it’s difficult to keep Sunday nights going. Those were in days when most of the evangelical churches in the city had Sunday night services. We know where that’s gone. I’m not saying the bible requires you to meet on Sunday nights. It does concern me when I see, less and less time being devoted to the serious study of the word. I wonder, how’s the next generation going to learn the word when we want to minimize the time we give to the word. So, I thought that article was a good reminder to us, who are so blessed. We take for granted that we each have our own bible and when it wears out, we can get a new one. Now, some of us don’t want to do that because we’re so familiar with this, we have our notes written in them. Then you can get it rebound. But it’s yours and you don’t have to hide it and are blessed with it.

So, that leads me to a question. How can we believe in the bible alone, when it’s not explicitly taught in Scripture? I know where we point in order to support our belief, but Catholics and other religions have beliefs based on implicit interpretations that we reject because they are not explicit. Why isn’t implicit interpretation, which gives us the bible alone, good enough for us whereas implicit teachings of another passage rejected? I think there’s really two parts to this question. Is the bible explicit, on that it is the only source of authority for us? That’s different than saying, there are some teachers we take teachings that they may have, that seem to be just implicit in the word. I think there is no question, the bible is explicit. That it is the sole authority for us. That’s what we take.

They use the Catholics and other religions. Take Catholics for example, they claim the bible as authoritative, but they claim the church is the only authoritative interpreter of the bible. And the church as ultimate authorities, so they also accept as authority the teaching of the church fathers in early church history. And the church has authority to develop other teachings. So, really, even though they would recognize the authority of the bible, they take it out of the hands of the people. Because ultimately, authority resides with the church. It will tell you what the bible says. And it has authority to add to the bible. I think the bible is explicit. It is the final absolute authority. Back in Deuteronomy 4 and 12, and we’ll get to this when we get to the end of the book of Revelation in chapter 22, you cannot add to it, you cannot take away from it. All scripture is God breathed and profitable. There is nothing else authoritatively for the believer than the word of God. So, I think that is explicit on implicit.

We’ve done on other occasions and perhaps we’ll do it again here in the future, about the clarity of the word of God on its authority for us. Now, when we come to interpreting the bible, there are differences. I have a question related to this, asking: Why, if believers have the Holy Spirit, do they have different interpretations? 1 John says, we have the Holy Spirit to teach us. You may want to turn there. You may not be current on it where you are in your bible studies. In 1 John chapter 2, John is talking about the conflict they have, and differences with those who had been professing believers and now have gone astray doctrinally. Look at verse 18, “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.” We’re living in the last days. “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.” So, the departure.

There were some who had been part of the professing family of believers who left. John says their leaving indicates they weren’t really spiritually a part of the group. That doesn’t mean that everybody that moves to another bible believing church is likewise. That’s not what it’s talking about. But those who have departed doctrinally and now take a position contrary to the word of God. And he reminds them at the end of verse 21, “…no lie is of the truth.” The first part of the verse, “I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it...” And since you know the truth, you ought to be able to use the truth to discern between truth and a lie. No lie is of the truth, you can’t turn a lie into truth. If it conflicts with the word of God, it is a lie. Verse 22, “Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.” Down to verse 26, “These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.” So, he’s primarily concerned with the impact upon believers from those who claim to have truth. Verse 27, “As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you….” It dwells in you. “…and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. Now, little children…” I take this as a statement of fact, not a command to do, “…little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.”

I think he’s drawing a contrast between the true and the genuine there. What about? We have an anointing. If all of us have the same Holy Spirit dwelling in us, why do Christians divide among themselves? Well, you know, we hold different views. We talked about covenant theology, we’ve talked about the book of Revelation and different views. It becomes a question and the closer the similarity becomes, the more difficult it is for us to sort out. What I mean is, we have differences with someone who professes to be a believer on interpreting passages of the word. How far off can you be and still be accepted as a believer? Obviously, we’ll have different understandings of certain passages, some of them, it’s not going to change any doctrine. You say well, I think this passage here would be teaching this. In another passage, well we may say, both doctrines are taught in the word. It’s a question of, what is this passage clearly teaching on that doctrine? There’s going to be differences, but you move out and the differences grow.

How far off can a believer be from accuracy with the word and still be accepted as a believer? I’ve shared with you, some who claim to be evangelical bible believing Christians, now deny the substitutionary atonement of Christ. I’ve read you quotes, they call it divine child abuse, things like that. But they want to be accepted as evangelicals. Well, I think you’ve obviously crossed the line. You’re denying the foundational truth of the gospel. You can’t remake the gospel and then say you’re a believer in the gospel. That’s another gospel. You’ve corrupted the very foundation like the Galatians. That’s not another gospel like I preach, Paul said, that is a totally different gospel, and you’re cursed to hell for teaching that. But every difference in the word doesn’t come to that. When we seem to be in agreement on the foundational truths of the gospel, where do we go from here? Can you deny what the bible says about future prophecy? Well, the Reformers did.

I think it comes back to consistency in approaching the word. I’m asked often, do you think those teaching this, are true believers? Sometimes, all I can say is, I don’t know. How confused can you be and still be accepted as a believer? Only God can see the heart. What I can say is, what they’re teaching, conflicts with the scripture. And I must oppose them for that reason. In other words, even if you’re a believer, that doesn’t give you the right to teach error. So, we stand against the error. Well, if they’re believers, we should still love them and welcome them. No, when a believer teaches what’s wrong, like Paul says, I stood Peter to his face, because he was inconsistent with the word of God. We need to be careful that we don’t cross a line and our emotions drive us, or our feelings.

Well, who says you’re right and someone else is wrong? That’s why we talk about the principles of interpreting the bible. The Lord will have to judge. What about those who deny the book of Revelation? I read you some quotes this morning from men who’ve just denied there could be a literal new Jerusalem. Absurd to think that. And yet, when you’ve read what they’ve written on the gospel and the way of salvation and so on, you say, well, we would agree with that. That doesn’t give them the right to deny other portions of the word. So, they may be believers. Lord knows, I’m not saying covenant theologians for example, can’t be a believer. I’m saying they are inconsistent with the word. They are undermining confidence in the truth of what God said. I cannot have fellowship with them in the ministry of the word. That’s why we have local churches. I think that’s why God has it set up as it is. One thing about the Roman Catholic church, it's a centralized system. What happens when you have a centralized system like that? When the top is off track, everything is off track. God has designed local churches that I can see, none of those churches were bound together on a basis other than agreement in the word of God.

I think the danger of the denominations is, denominations go off track in mass. And it starts out with the leadership. The seminaries that train the men. They go out, undermine. It becomes a matter of how we are going to interpret the bible. It’s just that simple. I’ve read you quotes from those who do not interpret the bible literally. They agree, if you interpret future prophecy literally, then you will be where we are. But they say, you don’t. I can’t give you a reason why do they do this. I know what they say, but it doesn’t make any sense. We go back in early church history, when they decided certain portions of the bible would not be interpreted literally. When error gets in, it’s hard to get it back out. That’s just true. Once error infiltrates, it spreads and now getting it out is very painful, very difficult. That’s why I try to stay out front of the dangers, so we don’t get enveloped and caught up in the error. Because once it infiltrates, there’s something about error, when our minds get twisted a little bit, it’s hard to back up and get straightened out again.

We honor the reformers and rightly so. What they did, was call the church that had drifted off from a literal interpretation of the bible. And thus, a corrupted view of salvation. How are you saved? Doing penance, and at that stage in the Roman Catholic church, you bought the penance. You did the works and the church controlled everything and nothing has changed, really. But the reformers fought against that. Luther was great at this. And they called the church to a literal interpretation of what the bible says about salvation. The problem was, they stopped there. Well, why didn’t they go on and say we should interpret the bible literally? It took centuries for that to get rooted out. Not that there weren’t maybe a small line of believers who were more committed to a literal interpretation, more broadly, but by in large, it took the church down until the 19th century, the 1800’s before they begin to clarity and do battle and say, we ought to be interpreting prophecy that’s not been fulfilled, literally.

You say, where was everybody before? All the prophecies that had been fulfilled, for example about the first coming of Christ, were fulfilled one way, literally. We agree, now that everything said about salvation, the way of salvation, should be interpreted literally. Why didn’t they go on and say, we can now have a foundation to say, you interpret the future prophecies that haven’t been fulfilled literally. But they don’t. Down to today, I read you the quotes. One was from a 19th century man, the other was from a 20th century man. A literal city coming down out of heaven, no possibility of that being a literal fulfilment. Why? Some people say, why, I don’t know, God will have to deal with it, with them as He’ll deal with each one of us. We will each give an account. Well, do you think they’re true believers? Some of them are, some of them aren’t.

The danger happens when you decide this portion of the bible you won’t interpret literally. That over time spreads and that’s an additional danger. They’re not only missing out on a correct understanding of future prophecy but they’re opening the door. Well, why did you just stop there in not interpreting the bible literally? Maybe this is not literal, maybe this is not literal. Does it really matter? So, all I can say is, when you back away from foundationally correct hermeneutics, you are off track. It’s one thing to say, we believe the bible is inspired. I think it teaches clearly. I think the hermeneutics, the principles of how we interpret the bible are set out. How does the bible interpret itself? How did Jesus interpret the Old Testament? What we call literally. He told the disciples that you should have understood this. The Old Testament taught that I would suffer and die. At the end of Luke, He’s teaching them that. What’s your problem? He teaches that I’m going to rule, and reign, and I will.

I cannot understand why people come through that and say yes, everything regarding the first coming of Christ was fulfilled literally. But with that now, we go back and reinterpret the Old Testament and everything it said that is not been fulfilled, will be interpreted allegorically, spiritually. So, the kingdom now exists in the hearts of men. There is no future earthly kingdom. Which would have been the view of the men I read you this morning. It comes down to the hermeneutics. I don’t have a good answer, I read these men and say, why? I read them here and they’re so clear on the gospel, but there is an erosion that takes place. Some of those that who do not interpret future prophecy, literally have begun to deny the reality of hell. Some called the Evangelical Anglicans, the Anglican Church, the Episcopalian Church in this country, the state church in England; where have they gone? Stott, Hughes, others, they deny a literal hell. Well, wait a minute. Then you back up. The church, the gospel is not limited to the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. That’s one leg of the gospel, as I read you. The other leg is social action.

There was an article in the paper this week, of churches getting involved in being ready when the need is there to go out. So that when the secular organizations call in the need for help, they come out to meet whatever physical needs there are, money needs, home, food, whatever. We say, that’s not bad. Well, it’s not bad in and of itself. The responsibility of government is to provide for and care for citizens and so on. That’s not the ministry of the church. We begin to pull these things in, so the only answer I have, the bible is explicit, this is the sole authority. This is the only inspired God breathed revelation given to man. So, that is the objective authority outside of us. It stands here as the authority by which we must all be measured. Our teaching must be measured.

I had another question related to this. Basically, it has to do with, when people reject the bible, how do you deal with people who don’t believe the bible is true? I can’t prove the bible is true. As a believer, I think the evidence is there. But the bible is a self-authenticating book. And I realize there’s a book of Mormon, there are other religious books, the Hindus and so on. Everybody has theirs. How do you know? Muslims? Why do you believe your book? I believe it because God says it’s His word. When I talk to a person like that, I usually give this point. I realize this is only one of many books that claim to be the authoritative word from God. It’s a book that I believe is true. I’d just like to share with you what it says. And you will have to make your decision. It’s a book that tells us where we came from. A living personal God that created us in His image. You may believe that, may not, but it does fit reality. We are here. We are created by God. The world’s in a mess, the bible tells us it’s because of sin and rebellion against Him. We have to agree there’s a lot of trouble, a lot of misery, a lot of problems in the world.

The bible’s explanation is a result of man’s rebellion against God, refusal to submit to Him. But I would expect the word from God would provide some kind of solution. The bible does. God intervenes, sent His Son. Really, I’m not trying to prove to him, I just want to share the gospel with him. Because I can’t prove the bible. The unbeliever lives in a world of darkness. Well, he’s rational. Look around, we see more irrationality breaking out all around us. I can’t prove the bible. You’re right, but you better consider carefully, if there is a God and if we’re to know anything about Him, He’s going to have to reveal Himself to us. If there’s a God who’s truly God and He wants to remain hidden and secret, we’ll never be able to find Him. So, if there is a God, and we’re going to know anything about Him, He’ll have to reveal Himself. The bible claims to be that revelation. I’ve used that line at the university, I’ve used it in high schools in days when I would be invited there.

I give the point, I can’t prove the bible, but what I want to do is work in a presentation of the gospel. This is just one book and I’m here to tell you what this book says. And it will be your responsibility to decide. And I want to work the gospel into that, to tell them the gospel, so that the Spirit might open their blind eyes, that they’ll see and believe. So, it’s no doubt, this is a faith step I have. He who comes to God, must believe that He is, that’s He’s a rewarder of those who seek Him. A person says, well, I don’t believe there’s a God. So, now what? Now I say, that’s your right to believe that. That doesn’t make it true, doesn’t make it false. I believe this, that doesn’t make it true, doesn’t make it false. But if you’re right and I’m wrong, we’re both just living our lives for whatever and then what? But if the bible is true, there’s more to life than that. Let me just tell you what it says. I’m just looking for an opportunity to tell them the gospel.

There’s no future in me trying to prove the bible. I believe there’s evidences, the miracles and it fits reality, it provides answers and all of that. But the unbeliever is in a world of darkness. It’s like me telling a person who is physically blind, can’t you see that color is red? Let me describe red in contrast to green. Well, I can describe to him, but he still can’t see it. He’ll have to take it by faith. So, those things are right, everybody claims, makes a claim. I just try to turn them to the Scripture. Here’s what God says, because the gospel is the power of God for salvation. That’s why you don’t have to have an answer to everything. If they invite you, I’ve used as an example, to come down to the university and speak to graduating seniors, what am I going to say? They’ve got all this knowledge. I don’t know a lot about what they’ve learned. I don’t have to know a lot of that, I’ve come to bring an answer to them from God.

And what I say is an introduction. I’ve shared, I used to get invited as a pastor, then they would have a funeral director, and then they’d have me come to the high school. I was the pastor not the funeral director, but I do funerals. You’ve had someone talk to you about funerals. You know what happens when a person dies? Is there anything else after this? I’d like to share with you, what the bible says. Some of you believe the bible, some of you don’t, but I come to present to you, one answer, for your consideration. I don’t prove the bible. They say, what if the bible is wrong? Then, if it’s wrong, I’m believing a lie. But I invite you to at least let me present to you, what it says for your consideration. I want to turn it to the gospel. I can tell you why people die. Whatever it is, if it’s a car accident, if it’s because of a disease, I tell you why people die. Why our lives come to an end. Why don’t we live longer? Why is death here?

There’s a reality that some of you, had your parents or grandparents die. Why? Because I want to bring it to the gospel. So, I encourage you in that. I think the Scripture and this one question is explicit. It is the sole authority. It is the only God breathed word in spite of what others claim. It’s no surprise that the Devil claims to have alternatives. And I believe it should be interpreted correctly. And the principles of interpretation to me, are foundational. Because if you’re not interpreting it correctly and in error, you will be drifting off. It’s a constant problem. Why did Paul have to deal with some men in the church who denied the resurrection, saying that it was already past? It comes up. Then the Galatians, with the corruption of the gospel, that’s an ongoing battle. Everything needs to be brought back to be measured by the truth.

I think prophecy is crucial. I think covenant theology is dangerous. Not saying none of these men aren’t believers. But it opens the door and the way and corruption spreads. I think local churches are God’s plan. I am not a denominational man, although I’ve been a member and baptized in the Baptist denomination, attended a Methodist church and been part of that denomination. But the danger in a denomination, and why we left the denomination that Indian Hills was part of, a branch of the Mennonites. Go to their meetings, you have division, conflict, not that there weren’t good people there, true believers who love the Lord, love the word. But they were divided over interpreting the bible, interpreting prophecy. Some interpret it literally, some didn’t. They say, let’s just agree we’re believers. Now about the social programs we’re going to do. Wait a minute, wait a minute! What’s the foundation? Well, their foundation for that is different then ours. If Israel is the church and the church is Israel, we’re going to do different things. So, we just have to say goodbye. I mean, I can’t convince you, you can’t convince me, I guess we’ll go our separate ways. In the end, we’ll give an account to the Lord.


Another area that comes up is bible interpretation. Again, this question, just this week. Are you familiar with Sozo prayer? It’s interesting, because I wasn’t. So, appreciate the question. I believe it’s an inner healing, contemplative prayer ministry. What is the best way to respond to someone involved in this erroneous system, with its visions and everything? I end up dealing with it. I get on to check it out and I find out, it is spreading rapidly through churches. I wasn’t even aware of it. It’s a charismatic oriented kind of ministry. The apostolic ministry in apostolic churches where they believe the gift of Apostleship is back. It takes you inner healing, dealing with demons and repressed memories. And really, what you’re going to do is meet with a person who is your mediator, to help you work through. There’s so much of this in Larry Crab’s approach. To help you delve into the inner recesses and find out what has happened, what’s gone on, what needs to be dealt with. Demon influences in your life.

When Christians aren’t well versed in the word, they become susceptible to every wind of doctrine. How do you deal with it? I just think that you need to take people to the word of God. This is experience orientated. So, what they’re going to do is try to get you involved in it. Because this is the danger, once you get involved in error, it’s like getting a little bit of cancer. Well, it spreads. It’s danger. Sin is pictured as a disease, a spiritual disease. And it begins to pervade. I have to come back, what is the biblical doctrine of sin?

Sozo, this is called Sozo prayer, comes from the Greek word for salvation. So, they just use it and carry it over into English, Sozo prayer. It uses terminology, and you get immersed in prayer. This person who is trained and experienced, comes in and helps you walk through issues in your life and in your past, and the way sin may have gotten into your life. And there may be demons here, and then you’re going to be involved in the process of working through and getting each of these things illuminated out. Where in the bible do you get any instruction on that? The problem in the charismatic movement is that they always have something new. This is a new fresh wind of the Spirit. It started in a particular church in California and then it spread out. We have the Toronto Blessing which started in Toronto and it has spread out.

Where’s the authority of the word of God? People are looking for experience. Well, maybe there’s something to it. Maybe the Spirit is doing… Maybe, maybe, maybe. We battle the same thing Paul did. We keep coming back. Here’s what God says. There’s no excuse for you. Like he has to tell the Galatians, I don’t even know if I wasted my time with you. It seemed like you’re so confused, I wonder where you really are? There’s no excuse for it. We will be held accountable to handle the Scripture accurately. We can’t decide, I learned that, the Devil doesn’t quit. I have to stay in it. I have to stay nourished. Physically in the analogy, Jeremiah said, your words were found, and I ate them. I took it in, I devoured it and Your word became the joy of my heart. The psalmist talks about it. This is the word of God, we feed of it daily.

Well, people talk about it, saying Gil, you need to eat right. Oh, no I did, I had a good meal. You know, back in March, for my birthday, we really ate well. That’s the way some Christians are with the bible. I’ve learned that. I don’t need to go through it again. I’ve been teaching it for 50 years, but I go back through it and those passages I’ve taught and taught. They need to stay fresh in my life. They need to be nourishing me. It’s not like a fact I learned, that I’ll put it on a hanger in the closet, and if I need it, I’ll pull it out. You know what happens then? We get stale, we drift, this is the danger. I have an email from a man who wants to get together, he’s living in another city, but he was part of Indian Hills many years ago. Now, he’s talking about, I’ve been through this with churches and have not been getting the Word, and I need to talk to somebody who can get me back in the Word and find out. So, we’re arranging to get together. We need to get back into the Word. This is a constant thing, pull people into the Word.

The Sozo ministry is part of the Apostolic Restoration Ministry. Peter Wagner, back in the 70’s, I visited with him and that movement just continues to go. The problem with charismatic movements is its foundation is experience. It goes back to the early part of my own experience, when we lived in Pittsburg and Kathryn Kuhlman had her ministry at Carnegie Hall in downtown Pittsburg. I went there with my Dad as a young boy. We went hours early, sat in because you couldn’t get in the doors of Carnegie Hall. She had 300 ushers who claimed to have been healed in her ministry. My family wasn’t discerning then, they didn’t know, they were searching. By God’s grace, He brought salvation to us and we moved on.

But it’s always the new thing. It is experience orientated. Let me tell you about the experience. It’s not your testimony of what God has done. This is an experience that becomes authoritative. Where do you find these steps? For example, this Sozo prayer. Becoming immersed in prayer and following these steps, do you find in the bible? You don’t! But the Spirit has revealed it. Soon as you open your life to new revelation, beyond the revelation of the Word, you’re out here. You’re no different than the Roman Catholics. God can reveal something to the Pope and if he speaks from the chair, “Cathedra”, it becomes authoritative doctrine. They can declare that Mary was born immaculate, without sin. That’s the doctrine of the church, so we all now believe it. Charismatic, somebody comes up, and this is a new wave of the Spirit, and you go from experience to experience to experience to experience. I’m not saying there are no Christians involved in the charismatic movement, but I’m just saying they may be off track. I know people say we are narrow. One person that I respect, called us Cultic because we just think we’re the ones on track. I don’t think we’re the only ones on track, but I want to be one of those who are on track. And I don’t associate well with those who I don’t think are on track. The Scripture has to be the authority.

Alright, I’m talking a lot. What about you? What’s on your mind? Do you want to ask a question? Go ahead. Question: I wasn’t tracking with you when you were speaking to someone about the bible and their religion. And I’m sitting here, saying why isn’t Gil more assertive. I wasn’t following you. If I’m talking to someone who believes in some other religion and I’m a believer in the Lord, and I’m talking about the bible, I won’t tell her, you have your religion and I have mine. I’m going to tell them that this is the Word of God. And it’s written by the Lord and there is only one way of salvation and it’s through faith in Jesus Christ. And if you believe in anything other than faith in Jesus Christ, you’re going to be lost in an eternal hell, separated from God.

Answer: Yes, and I agree with that. I don’t want to get stuck out here. What I was talking about is, sometimes the way I’ll use as an introduction, I’ll give the point. You may have your belief but let me tell you what the bible says. The end of that is, if you don’t believe this, the bible says you’re going to an eternal hell. Because the bible says this is the only way of salvation. My saying, I don’t want to debate at the front trying to prove them the bible is correct or not correct. I can’t prove to an unbeliever, for example, that the bible is true. I can only tell them the truth of the bible. So, at the front end, I’ll say, I don’t want to, I’m not going to debate about the evidences why the bible is true, and the book of Mormon is not. What I want to tell you is what the bible says. And then I walk them through the gospel, which the conclusion is, if the bible is true, and I believe it is true, because it’s the Word of the God who is truth, there is no other way of salvation. And if you don’t believe this, you’re doomed to an eternal hell. I was just talking about how I don’t want to start out by trying to prove to them that the bible is the word of God. I can’t prove that to an unbeliever. When the gospel is presented and the Spirit of God enlightens the heart and mind and they are convicted of their sin and believe the gospel I’ve presented, then that issue will be resolved.

Question readdressed: I will tell them, this is truth, it is the word of God whether you believe it or not.

Gill: Exactly!

Questioner: Okay.

Gill: Okay, we have to go to that point. So, when I say, I don’t want to debate with you, I understand you believe, I’ll use the book of Mormon, I’m saying the bible alone. I just want to tell you, like when I’ve gone to the classes, I’m not here to prove something to you. I don’t want to get involved in, well, what about creation? I think evolution is right. Well, I say, I believe in creation, then are we going to get into the evidence that creation is right? The unbeliever can’t deal with that. So, I would say, I understand you have a different position. I’m here to explain what the bible says. But as I go through the gospel then, as a result of that, from presenting the bible, if the bible is correct and I believe it is, there’s only one way of salvation. That’s through Jesus Christ. And if you don’t believe in Him, you will go to an eternal hell. That’s what the bible says, this is the Word of God. So, what I’ve done, is present the gospel. Only the Spirit can convict them. And if they believe, God’s power will save them. But yes, I don’t want to leave them with the impression, I think they have a way and I have a way. I would say, yes, Jesus said there are multiple ways. There is a broad gate and many people go through it. And I understand you’ve gone through the broad gate and you’re on a broad road. The bible says the end of that is destruction. But my point is, I can’t prove the bible to an unbeliever. All I can do is present the gospel. As I’ve mentioned, John Whitcomb impressed that on us at seminary. The only apologetic for the unbeliever is the gospel. So, I guess that’s what I’m saying. So, I bypass them wanting to argue with me. I’ve shared with you, I met with a professor over lunch when the University called me and wanted to get together. And he wanted to talk about what the bible said about creation, because he didn’t believe that. I believe science supports evolution. I understand that and we have a difference on that. But the real problem and the real issue, that I want to talk with you about, is not evolution verses creation. Because that’s not the real issue for you. The real issue for you is, the bible says you are a sinner, guilty before God. So, I wasn’t implying to him that it doesn’t make a difference, but for him, that’s not the issue. Me trying to prove to the scientist that science supports creation. Because he’s a blind man spiritually. I have to present the gospel. So, that’s where I want to get to.

Questioner: It is true, I can’t prove it to you, but I know it is true, and this is why.

Gil: Yes, but all I’m saying is, all I want to present to them is the gospel. Like Paul said when he came to Corinth, the Jews want signs, the Greeks want wisdom, I determined enough to know nothing among you but Jesus Christ and Him crucified. So, what I’m here to present to them is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. When Paul debated with the Athenians on Mars Hill, what did he talk to them about? The death and resurrection of Christ. I see many altars to many gods and all of that. Let me tell you about the one true living God. So, yes, the bible is true. It’s true in everything it says. But until they believe the truth of the gospel, everything else is irrelevant. They can believe in creation and be lost. So, yes, I don’t want to imply that anything contrary to the bible is true. It’s just not the relevant thing for discussion right now. What is relevant is, where are you? You are a sinner, guilty and on your way to hell. That’s what you have to deal with. So, until that’s dealt with, trying to resolve the issue, did God create the world in 6 days or not? That’s not your basic problem, your basic problem is, you are a sinner in rebellion against God. And you’re on your way to an eternal hell. What is your hope? The only hope you have is Christ.

Question: I just want to make sure people hear. And also, the listeners down at the Catholic Church, just that, we’ll take as an example, probably the easiest doctrine to attack for them, the doctrine of Mary. There’re about 30 verses in the bible about Mary, that’s it. But they’ve developed a whole system between the rosary, the hail Mary, the statues, the whole virgin birth, everything. And that over the hundreds of years, they’ve developed a whole doctrine that’s not biblical. So, it’s just an easy way to show the difference between protestant and catholic interpretations.

Gil: Yes, and at foundation, their problem is, what is the way of salvation? By their own admission in their catechism, they have developed their system, modeled after the Mosaic system of the Old Testament. A system of priests with a high priest, governing it all. The Pope, being the high priest. And then the priests arranged under him. And they’ve made salvation a matter of certain works. The bible says that’s not true. The closer you get to truth, the more truth Satan includes in his system, the more confusing it becomes for believers. We have less of an issue, for example, do we think Hindus are lost? Well, yes, they are not anywhere close to us. But then you get to something like Roman Catholicism, that claims, yes, we believe in the virgin birth. Yes, we believe in the resurrection of Christ. Yes, we believe in life after death. You say, well, they believe so much of what we say, and this is where we, it’s what we disagree on. Is salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone? And that’s where we differ. They say, it’s by grace, through faith in Christ, but not alone. So, they can talk in agreement with us until you push it on the issue. In other words, we can be saved without the sacraments. No! It’s not by faith alone, it’s by faith. So, the closer we get, the Devil creates a counterfeit. And you know how it is? If you have a little kid who doesn’t know much about money, you can give him play money, and he thinks he can go buy something at the store. The older, more mature the person gets, the better the counterfeit has to be. If you want to say that play money could be counterfeit, because he thinks it’s real, it has to be better. And the best counterfeit takes the most discernment. And that’s the way it is spiritually. The Devil is the great counterfeiter. Now, he’s counterfeiting false systems all over. But when he’s dealing with Christians, counterfeit it. Well, now the Mormons want to be accepted as evangelicals. They’re dropping the name Mormon. They want to be evangelical. They want to be accepted as evangelical. Their view of Christ is so distorted, but some say no, the umbrella is big enough. So, yes, this issue of the error, the more you study the more you see the paganism of the false system. Now, people will go out and say, IHCC thinks they’re the only ones right. No, I think there are other churches that believe that the truth of the word of God like we do. It’s not only us. I do get concerned that churches become less concerned about doctrine. And this is not just me speaking, this is a concern that’s being expressed in a number of places. A serious study of the word diminishes and if you’re not seriously into the word, how are you going to discern? What are you going to use for discerning? My feelings. I don’t feel that way. I think, well, it doesn’t matter how I feel. It doesn’t matter what I think. It matters what God says. And when I hear something, I say, well, they are believers, at least they seem to be. They do this. I want to examine it, consider it, and be sure I’m on track. So, we are never done. I’m coming to the end of my life in ministry, just by my age. But that doesn’t mean well, there’s nothing else for me to learn. I want to keep studying, I want to keep in the Word. I want to keep growing in my knowledge and understanding. And at my age, I’m finding I’ve got to go back and relearn what I did learn. I find papers I wrote when I was in school, and I say, I didn’t even know I knew that. Yes, that’s good. You sort of forgot that. It’s a process. Anybody else have anything?


Question: Well, I’ve got one other one. This will rattle you. What are your thoughts about mood disorders, such as bipolar, uncontrollable anger, ADHD, manic depression? Do you think someone who has anger management issues, with explosive fits could truly be saved?

Gil: This is a good question. It does press in on the church. We dealt with the issue of mixing psychology with the bible a number of years ago. But it didn’t go away, it just continued to infiltrate. Now, schools that have opposed it, offer degrees in counseling. And this mixed thing of secular psychology and the bible, and say, now, here’s how you deal with it. It’s very similar to what we hear about what the charismatic and the Sozo for example. We’re just creating and we’re going to mix it with the bible. When you mix with the bible, you end up with corruption. Much of what the bible calls sin, the world deals with it as what? Some kind of psychological issue. Anger management, what is anger management? In our schools, we have grade school kids who have anger management problems. Of course, they do. The bible says that. Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child. It’s discipline that deals with it. ADHD, we’re born with it. Maybe it manifests itself in men, if they’re in the analysis of what’s going on. What’s that? Some of it’s just foolishness! We take young kids, particularly the boys are the ones more with this. They get restless when you put them in school in a chair behind a desk for 8 hours. Well, they have an attention deficit disorder. I had it. In those days, they thought the rod helped correct it. My dad thought that. My schoolteacher thought that. But they also gave us recess. So, we put things in an environment, obviously a young boy wants to be out and about. Well, he’s not out helping on the farm or doing chores like they would have done in past generations and we can’t go back to that. But we get away from reality. And we think well, this is because of their family situation. And part of it is families, where there is no discipline in the home. We shared with you a little while back how I was in a grocery store and there were two parents and they had a youngster, and he’s carrying on. The mother is trying to correct the child and the father tells him something, but the child is not doing it, so the father just walks away. And I was just surprised. That little child walked right up behind his father, when he got to him, he just swung across and hit him across the backside and just kept on. The dad did nothing. If I did that to my dad, I wouldn’t be here today. He would have died in prison. So, yes there is a problem of how we raise the kids. But it’s not a psychological problem, it’s a refusal to see things biblically. Anger Management, so we have. We’ll use men, they can’t control their anger in certain things that just set them off. Well, come to Galatians 5. I’m just using this as an example, because it was mentioned here. Galatians 5:19, “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident...” And here are some examples. “…immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger...”

Well, unbelievers can have anger management problems because they are under the control of the flesh, as with other sins. The world won’t face the reality of sin, so they come up with a psychological explanation. It’s like in society, what we call primitive, they have the witch doctors. And when there was a problem, you go to the witch doctor. And he tells you what it is. It’s a demon of this or that. And that was true, Why? It’s true because the witch doctor says. Well, how does he know? He’s the witch doctor. The witch doctor knows. So, now we have our psychologizing of life. And they say, if you spank your child, he’ll grow up to be aggressive and end up beating or killing someone. Says who? Psychologist said that, pediatrician said that. How does he know? He’s a psychologist, psychologists know. Pediatricians know. So, anger management, can you be a believer? You know when a person is functioning consistently in conflict with Scripture, it raises questions? Are they truly believers? And I’ve shared with you, how I handled it, and I think it’s the biblical way to handle it. A person comes to me and says, I have an anger management problem. I can’t help it when things happen, I just lose it.

Well, let me share with you Romans 6. We don’t have time to go back to that now. God’s solution is, be made new on the inside. If you are under the control of sin, and loosing your temper, outbursts of anger are the work of the flesh, you’re not saved. Oh, I know I’m saved, I trusted Christ. Well, then you’re a liar. You’re either lying that you’re saved or you’re lying that you’re a Christian who can’t stop, because Romans 6 says, stop it. And we are made new in Christ, so we don’t have to lose our temper. We just like to lose our temper. I like to get it out. Well, no, I just think I can’t help it. Now, we want to be careful here, even as believers. Paul says the reason we don’t want to sin is, sin enslaves. And we’ve been enslaved to God and righteousness, so you be careful. Even as a believer, if I ‘m going to continue to be involved in sin, it begins to wrap its tentacles around me. And then I’m frustrated because it seems like, I can’t stop this. And then I get confused, am I really a believer? If I was a believer, I would stop this. Well, the more you indulge in it, the more it gets a hold on you. And we want to be careful, even as believers. That’s why I say, you can stop, you never have to sin, as a believer. We now have adults who have attention deficit disorder supposedly. Now, certain habits are developed. That’s the thing we do with children, we don’t help them to learn discipline. My parents were not believers when I was a child. But even when you’re not a believer and you implement things that are biblically true, life is better. So, in days when even unbelievers disciplined their children, it made for better lives. Children weren’t running around killing other children. Schools weren’t out of control and so on. They implemented what God said should be done, and even though they weren’t believers, they were doing what God had created us and how He created us to function, what was right. Now, we abandoned that. And this is true for us as Christians, if you don’t discipline your children. We have Christian parents who don’t know how to control their child. What do you mean, they don’t know how to control their child? You’ve got two grown adults and this little child going crazy. Stifle them! Say, we’re going back here. We always have a ping pong paddle, even having children from Marilyn and I, they would have had perfect genes, but there was a breakdown. When we traveled, we had the ping pong paddle stuck between the seats. I liked the ping pong paddle; it spread things out. My Dad thought the belt had been created by God for that. It worked on the boys. The ping pong paddle, even when we were driving, if things got out of hand, we said, we’re going to be stopping at the rest stops. And if it were one of the children, I won’t say which one, was not doing good, we invited the one to take a walk with his mother while we disciplined the one that was necessary. We’re going to deal with it now. Or if we couldn’t deal with it now, we’ll deal with it when we get home. But we deal with it when we get home. You know, by the time you get home, they’re playing up nice and everything is good. We have an issue to be dealt with. Oh well, I fixed that. I know, but you’re going to be punished for when you didn’t have it fixed. It develops a pattern, there are consequences for doing wrong. We start early, starting when we carried the baby with the diaper. They start to do something, gave them a swat on the diaper. They didn’t feel much but they knew that what they were doing was unacceptable. Now we get up, we have adults and they supposedly have anger management problems. They can control it. They don’t lose their temper with their boss at work. They’re afraid they’ll get fired. They wait until they come home and lose it with the kids or with their wife or something like that. They control it. They don’t throw a fit in the grocery store, usually. Adults, they control it. They can control it. Believers can control it. The Spirit will enable them to. I don’t want to. I want to let them know how upset I am. I’m going to let them. Well, that’s a willful sin. So, yes, I think a lot of these things you get into the brain and then into the mind, they’re different. There can be things that happen in the brain. I realize there are certain medications that you take. You can take certain medications, I’ve read, and on the bottle, it says, this can cause depression. Well, I understand there are physical things that can happen. We need to be aware of that. And there may be drugs you have to take because they correct the problem even though you’re aware it will cause a problem. So, if you were going to take that particular kind of drug, I’d say I’d be aware, I’m going to feel down. It’s going to produce that kind of effect in me. But I’m not going to function like that, I’m going to be aware. So, being aware, I realize there are certain physical things that will be caused by something physically done that, we can’t sort all these things out, but things that are sin are dealt with as sin. If I’m depressed, we’ve talked about it. Well, I don’t feel that gets to my feelings, how I’m thinking. I can control my thinking. Philippians 4 tells me how to think, what to think about, these kinds of things. I still feel down. That’s alright, feel down. Now, do what you’re supposed to do. It’s what we tell our children when they say, I don’t feel like going to school today. Well, if you don’t get out of bed and get ready quickly, you’re going to feel a lot worse. Get going! But we as adults get there and think, ah, I just can’t face today. I’m really down. I do want to examine myself, am I doing something wrong? If I have sin in my life, I will be depressed, if I’m a believer. Unbelievers get it, but I’m talking about believers now. Because you’re doing the wrong thing, that does affect you. So, yes, I haven’t been conducting myself right. That begins to work on me. I want to deal with that. Far as I can tell in my life, if Lord, as far as I can tell, there’s nothing that I’m doing that would be contrary to what You want me to do. I realize my life is not perfect, I still don’t feel right. Lord, that’s not going to keep me from doing what You want me to do. And functioning like I should. The other thing is, we get turned in on ourselves. Oh man, I just feel so terrible today! And I get occupied with that for the whole day. Then I wonder why the next day, I don’t feel like getting out of bed. You know, we are to discipline our minds. We are to discipline our bodies. Paul wrote to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection. That takes a certain amount of effort. Now the Spirit provides the enablement, but if it just came easy, we’d all just be living perfect lives. It is the battle that goes on. So, all of that to say, anger management, those kinds of things, I just deal with, that’s sin. I never have to do the wrong thing if I’m a believer. Now, many people trying to live a Christian life who have never been saved, they are just pushing that wheel barrel loaded with concrete up a hill. They can’t do it. They try hard to be a believer and then they become upset. So, let’s first be sure, are you a believer? Then you don’t have to lose your temper. You never have to sin. That’s the beauty of it. I’m not saying you never sin. John K would have preached here many years ago. He was a professor at Philadelphia College of the Bible. He’s now with the Lord. I remember that he comes like a lightening bolt for some reason, I’d sit in class, and he says, YOU NEVER HAVE TO SIN! You could lead a perfect life, but you won’t. But there’s no excuse for not. And that’s the balance of Scripture. That’s why we’re still growing, maturing, and developing.

Let’s pray together. Thank You Lord, for Your Word. Thank You for its richness. Lord, sometimes we become shallow as believers. We want to delve into the depths, take these truths, meditate upon them, mull them over. Shine the light of Your Word on our lives to examine ourselves to see if we’re in the faith. To see if we’re walking the walk. Living the life. Pressing on. Lord, are we loving Your Word? Loving You? Desiring to know You better as You’ve revealed Yourself in Your Word? Lord, may we be a growing body of believers as we grow together individually. Bless the week before us. We pray in Christ’s name. Amen.